Episode 62

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Published on:

5th Feb 2025

The Enduring Enterprise Pt. 2, with Devin DeCiantis and Ivan Lansberg

Devin DeCiantis and Ivan Lansberg, the Managing Partner and co-founder respectively of Lansberg Gersick Advisors, continue the discussion of their new book, THE ENDURING ENTERPRISE: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Conditions, including the possible consequences of the latest US election on family businesses, 7 stabilizing strategies for businesses and organizations, and weighing the "I" vs the "we".

Transcript
Gary Michels:

So we don't really like to on this show get too

Gary Michels:

political or take sides on anything, but just looking at it

Gary Michels:

objectively, this book was written before the most recent

Gary Michels:

US presidential election, and that election is now over, and

Gary Michels:

it means a change in the administration and possible big

Gary Michels:

changes to business. Does that change anything in the book for

Gary Michels:

you, or change what you think the outlook is for family

Gary Michels:

businesses in the United States? And if so, or if not, what

Gary Michels:

impact do you believe this will have going forward?

Devin DeCiantis:

It's a great question Gary and obviously a

Devin DeCiantis:

sensitive one, but in general, I think it it addresses precisely

Devin DeCiantis:

one of the challenges that we wanted to write about in

Devin DeCiantis:

anticipation of not just the US election, but over the course of

Devin DeCiantis:

2024 more than half of the world, for the first time in

Devin DeCiantis:

history, went to the polls to elect their governments, and not

Devin DeCiantis:

just in the US, but in many countries. The outcomes of those

Devin DeCiantis:

elections were complicated and presented the businesses

Devin DeCiantis:

operating in those environments with potentially a very

Devin DeCiantis:

different world to navigate the day after the election than the

Devin DeCiantis:

day before the election. And part of our aspiration with the

Devin DeCiantis:

book was to provide examples from other places where perhaps

Devin DeCiantis:

those lurches left or right in the political spectrum or in

Devin DeCiantis:

terms of industrial policy might have been more dramatic, but

Devin DeCiantis:

they're dramatic with an effect. The effect is that you still

Devin DeCiantis:

need to attend to and think about how you're going to

Devin DeCiantis:

reposition yourself in the face of, you know, tariff barriers,

Devin DeCiantis:

or a change in access to to supply chains that are that are

Devin DeCiantis:

competitive, depending on which countries you operate in, and

Devin DeCiantis:

the importance of the diversification within those

Devin DeCiantis:

supply chains, the importance of redundancy built into your

Devin DeCiantis:

inventory and warehousing, the importance of strategic

Devin DeCiantis:

simplification in terms of recognizing the impact of

Devin DeCiantis:

inflation on your on your business model, and the

Devin DeCiantis:

compression on your margins, all of these issues that are dialed

Devin DeCiantis:

up to 11 in some environments around The world. You know,

Devin DeCiantis:

places where Hyperinflation is ripe are still present here,

Devin DeCiantis:

just not at 11, but maybe at seven on the dial. And most

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business leaders are used to a two or a three. So in that

Devin DeCiantis:

respect, we've hoped, as we wrote this book and in the

Devin DeCiantis:

selection of the cases that we've included, that this would

Devin DeCiantis:

be a bit of a new and fresh strategic playbook for leaders

Devin DeCiantis:

who are trying to navigate what is undoubtedly going to be among

Devin DeCiantis:

the most tumultuous several years in recent American

Devin DeCiantis:

history.

Ivan Lansberg:

The other thing I think this change highlights for

Ivan Lansberg:

me, and I think the book, certainly it builds on this

Ivan Lansberg:

concern, is that, let's say you take Elon Musk and have him

Ivan Lansberg:

moving to government to cut all the you know, inefficiencies go

Ivan Lansberg:

to speed. And, you know, I'm all for being for having an

Ivan Lansberg:

efficient government. I think that's terrific, that the

Ivan Lansberg:

concept is very nice. But before you move in with a with a

Ivan Lansberg:

chainsaw, you really need to pay attention for why those

Ivan Lansberg:

inexpiciencies are built into the system, and because if you

Ivan Lansberg:

cut them all away, you're basically jacking up risk that

Ivan Lansberg:

the institutional stabilizers, as we call them in the book,

Ivan Lansberg:

will begin to wither, and before you know it, the US is going to

Ivan Lansberg:

start beginning to look more like Guatemala, you know, in

Ivan Lansberg:

terms of its its ability, and for business people, the

Ivan Lansberg:

implications are huge, like you're pointing out exactly, you

Ivan Lansberg:

know. I mean, what will the stars do to our game? What will,

Ivan Lansberg:

you know? What will happen when we can count on, you know, in

Ivan Lansberg:

theme, to rescue people after a tornado goes by. I mean, once

Ivan Lansberg:

you take all that away, if you just slash and burn, you're

Ivan Lansberg:

going to be left with just a skeleton or something that

Ivan Lansberg:

really does expose the construct of the US to enormous risk.

Gary Michels:

It goes back to risk and reward again, what's

Gary Michels:

the risk and what's the reward? And if our world can get to a

Gary Michels:

spot where we're sitting at the table, whether you're left or

Gary Michels:

right, and you're fully saying what's going to be the best for

Gary Michels:

the world long term, that's why we all do what we do, right,

Gary Michels:

what's a good middle ground that that will be the best for most

Gary Michels:

people. Learning from all this, you guys have actually come up

Gary Michels:

with seven stabilizing strategies, and I love lists

Gary Michels:

that you they can help any organization increase its

Gary Michels:

resilience and performance. Would you guys mind sharing

Gary Michels:

those?

Devin DeCiantis:

Yeah, sure, and thanks Gary for calling it out.

Devin DeCiantis:

In fact, we didn't develop these strategies, these strategies we

Devin DeCiantis:

identified as recurring among the hundreds of families around

Devin DeCiantis:

the world we studied so as we as we went out and tried our best

Devin DeCiantis:

to understand this phenomena of enduring enterprises and what

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made them tick and what allowed for them to adapt to these

Devin DeCiantis:

tumultuous conditions, we kept coming back to this cluster.

Devin DeCiantis:

There were more than seven at one point, but we distilled it

Devin DeCiantis:

down to these seven because these were the seven most

Devin DeCiantis:

recurring caps. Patterns, and we dedicated in the book one

Devin DeCiantis:

chapter to each of these strategies, and included an

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iconic case study that exemplified each of the

Devin DeCiantis:

strategies. So, you know, I can list a couple of them here, but

Devin DeCiantis:

things like, like redundancy, which feels, again, we use that

Devin DeCiantis:

term almost pejoratively, like, oh, that's redundant. We don't

Devin DeCiantis:

need that extra infrastructure in order to be able to do what

Devin DeCiantis:

we do. But to Yvonne point just now, sometimes efficiencies are

Devin DeCiantis:

actually essential for the viability long term of an

Devin DeCiantis:

enterprise. And the iconic case that we use in the case of

Devin DeCiantis:

redundancy is as a hotel operator, a family controlled

Devin DeCiantis:

company in Haiti that's been this at the epicenter of every

Devin DeCiantis:

possible social, political, economic and environmental

Devin DeCiantis:

disaster you can imagine, over their 50 year leadership of this

Devin DeCiantis:

enterprise, and in the face of that, recognizing that at any

Devin DeCiantis:

moment, any one of the essential systems that allow for them to

Devin DeCiantis:

continue could break down. They have backup generators for their

Devin DeCiantis:

backup generators. They have backup communication systems.

Devin DeCiantis:

They have backup internet infrastructure. They have backup

Devin DeCiantis:

security teams. They have backup in your warehouses of and

Devin DeCiantis:

stockpiles of all the essential needs that their that their

Devin DeCiantis:

guests might might desire, not just for the time at which

Devin DeCiantis:

they're there, but in the event that the entire society

Devin DeCiantis:

collapses, as it had in the wake of the big earthquake in recent

Devin DeCiantis:

years and now with all sorts of Roman gangs circling through

Devin DeCiantis:

Port au Prince. So you recognize that with examples like this,

Devin DeCiantis:

that redundancy actually becomes a strategic asset as a pro as

Devin DeCiantis:

opposed to a, you know, an expense that is frivolous and

Devin DeCiantis:

that needs to be that needs to be reduced. Similarly for

Devin DeCiantis:

strategies like migration, it's really about resources at some

Devin DeCiantis:

point, in some circumstances. And we use and highlight a case

Devin DeCiantis:

from from Syria of an enterprising family whose assets

Devin DeCiantis:

were essentially expropriated by the government in in the 1960s

Devin DeCiantis:

and they had to migrate. They essentially were, were forced to

Devin DeCiantis:

either, you know, live as civilians in country, but not

Devin DeCiantis:

with the possibility of of continuing to operate, or

Devin DeCiantis:

migrating to neighboring Lebanon and starting back up from

Devin DeCiantis:

scratch, using their social capital, their intellectual

Devin DeCiantis:

capital, to rebuild an empire that ended up becoming a

Devin DeCiantis:

regional champion once again, but in the face of a hostile

Devin DeCiantis:

environment that's no longer receptive to your ongoing

Devin DeCiantis:

presence there, in some points, you just need to pick up and go.

Devin DeCiantis:

You need to know when to hold them and when to fold them and

Devin DeCiantis:

when it's time to fold them. You need to pick the appropriate

Devin DeCiantis:

destination for that journey, and I say that with a smile,

Devin DeCiantis:

knowing that you live in in Vegas...

Ivan Lansberg:

Haha, I was just thinking that. But, you know, I

Ivan Lansberg:

think one key point Gary is, is that it runs through all of the

Ivan Lansberg:

strategies. None of them come for free, and business owners

Ivan Lansberg:

are so focused on their operating models appropriately,

Ivan Lansberg:

right? So you know you're running a company, 90% of your

Ivan Lansberg:

attention is making sure you know the product is out the

Ivan Lansberg:

door, the service is provided, and everything is done in the

Ivan Lansberg:

most cost effective manner possible. But if you overlook

Ivan Lansberg:

also pausing and asking yourself, what risks are we

Ivan Lansberg:

taking and what measures might we built into our operating

Ivan Lansberg:

models to be able to cushion uncertainty which will come your

Ivan Lansberg:

way, one way or another. You know, whether it's 911 whether

Ivan Lansberg:

it's COVID, whether it is you know, the new administration,

Ivan Lansberg:

whatever it is, something's going to affect and touch your

Ivan Lansberg:

business. You better be ready for that, and understand that

Ivan Lansberg:

any one of those measures, like a spare tire in a car, you know,

Ivan Lansberg:

will take some resources, will occupy space. We'll weigh you

Ivan Lansberg:

down a little bit. But in exchange for that, you're upping

Ivan Lansberg:

the chances of continuity, which for most family enterprises, and

Ivan Lansberg:

very much in tune with your legacy construct is key. That is

Ivan Lansberg:

a key priority. So if you want to continue, you better be

Ivan Lansberg:

attentive to risk.

Gary Michels:

So as you guys know, our insurance companies

Gary Michels:

call Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group. Thus, Let's

Gary Michels:

Talk Legacy. Legacy is such an important part to what we do

Gary Michels:

every day, and when a person purchases insurance, it's

Gary Michels:

because they want to leave a legacy for somebody behind. It's

Gary Michels:

always an interest to us to understand what legacy means to

Gary Michels:

each and every person that we speak with every day. And I'd be

Gary Michels:

curious to each of you guys, what legacy means to you.

Devin DeCiantis:

That's a great question. And I'd be curious to

Devin DeCiantis:

go back and hear how your other guests have answered. In my

Devin DeCiantis:

perspective, when I think about legacy, I think about bringing

Devin DeCiantis:

forward into the present and carrying into the future those

Devin DeCiantis:

aspects or elements of our shared heritage that we want to

Devin DeCiantis:

celebrate and that we want to sustain. And it's also

Devin DeCiantis:

recognizing. The world around us is changing, and the world in

Devin DeCiantis:

which those legacies were first established isn't necessarily

Devin DeCiantis:

the world of today or the world of tomorrow, and so that we need

Devin DeCiantis:

to also adapt that legacy and bring forth the elements that we

Devin DeCiantis:

truly appreciate but embrace, perhaps some novelty and

Devin DeCiantis:

innovation that wasn't ever conceived when when the legacy

Devin DeCiantis:

was first established.

Ivan Lansberg:

And to me, it, you know, I became a grandfather

Ivan Lansberg:

seven years ago. And to me, that is, you know, a very important

Ivan Lansberg:

motivation to try and reflect on, what can I pass on to my

Ivan Lansberg:

grandchildren that will endure. You know, what are the stories,

Ivan Lansberg:

what are the values, what are the strategies that have, I've

Ivan Lansberg:

seen worked, and that this work actually reflects, you know, an

Ivan Lansberg:

inventory of that could be useful to them as they will

Ivan Lansberg:

tackle the world they will inherit with full knowledge that

Ivan Lansberg:

that world, as Devin suggests, will be quite different from the

Ivan Lansberg:

one I've lived.

Gary Michels:

Absolutely. Do either of you feel that your

Gary Michels:

personal legacies are any different than your work

Gary Michels:

legacies?

Devin DeCiantis:

It's a great question.

Ivan Lansberg:

Great question.

Devin DeCiantis:

I mean, I think they're inextricably

Devin DeCiantis:

intertwined, certainly at this age and stage in my in my

Devin DeCiantis:

career. You know, they're they're inseparable, although, I

Devin DeCiantis:

will say, you know, to the extent that we have personal

Devin DeCiantis:

lives outside of our professional lives, our most

Devin DeCiantis:

authentic selves will will align those, those elements of of your

Devin DeCiantis:

person that may be distinct from what's useful in your work, but

Devin DeCiantis:

it ought not to run across the grain, otherwise, you're

Devin DeCiantis:

probably in the wrong profession.

Gary Michels:

The reason that I asked that question is I've seen

Gary Michels:

so much lately, so many famous business people, athletes, even

Gary Michels:

executives and companies there, for the first time in years,

Gary Michels:

start to build their own individual brand, even within

Gary Michels:

that company, and it's them letting the world know who they

Gary Michels:

are, what their legacy is in the combination of the company or

Gary Michels:

the the environment that they're in. That's why I asked you guys,

Gary Michels:

do you have some personal legacies that you'd like to see

Gary Michels:

accomplished?

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah, I know it's a great question, and I had two

Ivan Lansberg:

thoughts on that. One is, you know, there's something so

Ivan Lansberg:

important in families, because you're constantly managing the

Ivan Lansberg:

relationship between the I, who I am as an individual on the we,

Ivan Lansberg:

the identity that we hold together as a group, right? So

Ivan Lansberg:

that tension is inherently built into into families. The other

Ivan Lansberg:

thought I had about this was a story that I think Warren

Ivan Lansberg:

Buffett tells about, you know, some sometime they ask him, so

Ivan Lansberg:

how do you define success? And then he says that the person who

Ivan Lansberg:

dies with the most friends. And then they asked him, so how do

Ivan Lansberg:

you define a friend? And then he says, Well, a friend is and then

Ivan Lansberg:

he notes a friend of his who went through the Holocaust,

Ivan Lansberg:

right? And says, A friend is somebody who will hide you,

Ivan Lansberg:

meaning somebody who will take have enough conviction and

Ivan Lansberg:

commitment to you to take a personal risk on your behalf. An

Ivan Lansberg:

advocate, basically, an advocate, right? An advocate who

Ivan Lansberg:

will protect you when the time comes. Our emphasis on family

Ivan Lansberg:

unknown, on unknown risk, basically, in the book, it

Ivan Lansberg:

really comes from, you know, being exposed to families

Ivan Lansberg:

worldwide, in the US, in Europe, in Asia, in Latin America, in

Ivan Lansberg:

Africa, that are just exemplary at managing that tension and

Ivan Lansberg:

being able to call forth a collective identity that allows

Ivan Lansberg:

them to get you know, that gives them the resiliency they need to

Ivan Lansberg:

cope with it, the challenges they face.

Gary Michels:

Well, you guys have your new book out now, the

Gary Michels:

enduring enterprise. Tell us just briefly about the book and

Gary Michels:

where people can get the book, and then also how they can reach

Gary Michels:

the two of you if they want to learn more about your company

Gary Michels:

and the work that you do.

Devin DeCiantis:

Well, thanks, Gary. Should at this point be

Devin DeCiantis:

able to get the book pretty much anywhere, or is, you know,

Devin DeCiantis:

there's bookstores and Amazon and audible and Kindle and all

Devin DeCiantis:

these other formats. At the end of the day, our aspiration with

Devin DeCiantis:

that was to get these ideas out to as many people as they could

Devin DeCiantis:

possibly benefit. We captured the ideas in the book to

Devin DeCiantis:

introduce these counter intuitive notions and to

Devin DeCiantis:

establish not only family businesses, but emerging in

Devin DeCiantis:

frontier economies as sources of inspiration for business leaders

Devin DeCiantis:

everywhere, and we really do hope that over the course of

Devin DeCiantis:

this the conversation, as well as if folks end up picking up

Devin DeCiantis:

the book and having a read or taking a listen, that they are

Devin DeCiantis:

inspired to embrace some of these approaches. And if they

Devin DeCiantis:

ever want to reach out to us to talk about them or to think

Devin DeCiantis:

about how to apply them, they can reach. Said at LGA or via

Devin DeCiantis:

LinkedIn, or many of these other mechanisms of of connecting. But

Devin DeCiantis:

most, above all, we really hope these ideas are valuable and

Devin DeCiantis:

that folks are able to take them and do good work out there in

Devin DeCiantis:

the world.

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah, we believe in the power of ideas, and the

Ivan Lansberg:

book is really our attempt at trying to summarize that

Ivan Lansberg:

experience and share them with with others. You know, as we

Ivan Lansberg:

often think about this, it's it's continues to be a work in

Ivan Lansberg:

progress. We don't pretend to have all the answers here, but

Ivan Lansberg:

we do want to get people curious about how important continuity

Ivan Lansberg:

and resiliency are in building legacies.

Gary Michels:

Is there a website or a phone number that they can

Gary Michels:

reach you all?

Devin DeCiantis:

Absolutely, at LGA.global, you can reach our

Devin DeCiantis:

team. We've got about 40 of us around the world who are wise

Devin DeCiantis:

and caring advisors to the world's leading, enterprising

Devin DeCiantis:

families, and would love to hear from anybody who wants to

Devin DeCiantis:

discuss these topics.

Gary Michels:

Awesome. Well, I thank you guys for your time so much.

Ivan Lansberg:

Thank you, Gary.

Devin DeCiantis:

Thank you Gary.

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Let's Talk Legacy
Presented by Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group
What does it mean to build and maintain a legacy, either in business, or for your loved ones? What tools and resources are available to help? Join the discussion along with exciting guests and real listeners just like you, to tackle the answers to these questions, and learn how to grow today, for a better tomorrow.



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