Episode 57

full
Published on:

20th Nov 2024

How To Be Well In An Unwell World, with Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe

Behaviorist, psychology researcher, and expert on the topic of resiliency, Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, explains how to stay resilient even in the face of hardship, how to prioritize and set goals, the 5 Pillars of resilience, the importance of taking a pause, the perspective shift brought on by her podcast co-host, navigating the realms of wellness, and the role of perseverance in building your legacy.

Transcript
Gary Michels:

Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy. I'm your host, Gary

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Michels, and today we are joined by Dr Robyne Hanley-Dafoe. She's

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behaviorist, psychology researcher, educator and

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international speaker. Is one of the world's greatest experts on

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the topic of resiliency, something which is critical for

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all of us to establish a legacy. Doctor, welcome to the show.

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Well, thank you for having me. I'm

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glad to be here.

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To get started. Tell us, what is your

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definition, or the scientific definition, shall I say, of

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resiliency?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: I love this question. So resiliency in

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my work, and what we talk about is this idea about, how do we

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essentially take all the broken parts and put it together in

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this mosaic of how we get to find a comeback, how we are able

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to bounce back, how we're able to kind of reimagine, redefine,

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rebuild once, what was like something that we thought was

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going to go a particular way, for example, and then all of a

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sudden there's this detour. And what do we do with those pieces?

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And how do we rebuild a big, bright teacher? So to me, it's

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incorporate so much on that behavioral perspective, but also

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that psychological perspective, and really how we kind of work

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with our variables so we can build big, bright futures. In

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the research that we've done, what we were able to identify is

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that people who were resilient, that they seem to be able to

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kind of lean into a particular set of tools approaches, or what

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we've called the Five Pillars. So how a person like develops

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and learns those pillars is one thing, but I think for us to

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first understand, like, what those are, and then we can

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imagine all the different ways people can go about it. So the

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first one was belonging. It's that you need a home team. You

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have to have people that you're fighting for. You have to have

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people that matter to you and also you matter to them. When

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people have some person that's looking out for them in their

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corner, we know it allows them to tap into this whole other

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level of tools and resources and energy to be able to show up

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even in the most difficult seasons in time. So having that

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one caring, consistent kind of person in our world matters. The

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second we talk about is perspective, this ability to,

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like, see the big picture, but also, like all the little things

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that contribute to that big picture and we also tie into

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that area as well, this notion of like, this alignment between

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our head and our heart, right for sure. Like, resiliency

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requires problem solving, critical thinking, but it also

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requires, like being able to feel our way through the world,

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to be able to like work in those situations and process our

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emotions. So we see that perspective piece was really

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important. The third one, which again, was a bit of a sticking

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point for so many people, was the idea of acceptance of

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working within our controllables. And I think

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sometimes people get stuck because they think acceptance

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means approval, that we have to, like, you know, approve of

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what's happening. We don't have to approve it. We need to be

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able to work with it and to have, like, real, raw

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conversations about what our realities are. The fourth

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variable, which I personally think the world needs such a big

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dose of right now is the perspective of hope. We know

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that part of human resiliency, there's this through line of

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hope that we have to trust that better days are ahead. And this

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isn't what I think right now is getting really popular around

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this kind of toxic positivity where, you know, we just need to

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kind of think about rainbows and, you know, manifestation, or

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perhaps, like you know, if affirmations and ponies, this is

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just a genuine ability, that even in the dark seasons, we

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there's like this part of us that knows that we are going to

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find our way through it, that we're well resourced. And again,

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things might be hard right now, and we trust we'll figure it

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out. And the fifth variable, that's this wee bit of a wild

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card in such an extreme way, was we learned that, like, resilient

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people use humor, and it wasn't like humor, and then, like, you

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know, it wasn't like they were deflecting things or not taking

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things seriously, that they they understood the importance of a

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pause, that understanding, you know, being able to like, like,

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make light of what you can make light of, even In difficult

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scenarios, that they have this amazing capacity to be able to,

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like still, find moments of relief, and we saw that through

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laughter. So for example, when you laugh, your body releases a

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natural tranquilizer. Your pain receptors are blocked, so people

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were able to use that as just a moment of reprieve. So that way,

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they were able to respond versus react to what was ever in front

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of them.

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It sounds like people who stay resilient have a

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good sense of perspective. They're realistic, but also

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still very optimistic, not cynical. Is that correct?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah, this idea that hope triumphs

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experience. And as a behaviorist, I'm the first one

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that's going to tell you your past you know past behavior is

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the best predictor of your future behavior, how you

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experience the world is so indicative of what you've gone

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through. Yet, even when we've had a difficult outcome or

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something, hasn't turned out our way, hope triumphs that

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experience. It's being able to say, You know what I know this

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is why this went off the rails, or why perhaps this got, you

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know, this didn't work out, and I'm. To try again. It's that

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ability to like, not let that negative experience or that

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rejection or that hurt, like, preclude you from having a big

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future, right? So it's this ability that it like, has this

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awesome capacity to say, like, try again. You know, life

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experience might tell us don't do that. It could hurt or it

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might not be your best choice. Well, yeah, but we find a way to

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persist.

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For a lot of people, even if someone has a

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really hard experience, if it has a positive outcome, that's

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all that stands out in their mind. Do you find that's the

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case?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah, oh for sure. It does absolutely

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like how, again, how we like process, how we kind of navigate

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what we've gone through, but that requires this degree of

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like self awareness, that ability to pause enough after a

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mistake or a setback, or some type of, you know, event that's

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requiring resiliency to actually, like, take stock,

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right, do a little bit of that act after action report, almost

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of like, okay, like, what you know, kind of what went off the

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rails, or what was difficult, or, you know, what can I learn

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from this? And there's this kind of beautiful, kind of philosophy

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that speaks of, if we kind of wiped away every mistake we ever

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made in our past, we would lose who we are today. And so that

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notion of the importance of it, and as I say, like, I have a mom

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of three teenagers, and one of my go tos with my teenagers is,

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don't waste a mistake, right? Like, don't, don't, you know,

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add it with blame and shame. Like, who cares? Like, that

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won't serve you at all. Don't waste this mistake. How are we

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going to take the lessons learned there and we're going to

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be able to move forward? But on that note, one of the things

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that I sometimes get concerned about is when people, for

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example, process things in such a way where they'll say, like,

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oh, everything happens for a reason. You know, you have to,

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like, you know, go through that and, you know, to a point. Yes,

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things work for a reason, but some things also just suck.

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Like, some things are just horrible. And I think sometimes

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when people try to be like, they try to rush recoveries, for

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example, in the name of resiliency, right? They're like,

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oh, I want to be a resilient person, so I'm not going to

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process it. I'm just going to like, you know, you know, ignore

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it, override and I'm just going to jump to the next thing,

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because I want to be resilient. That's actually not really being

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of service to yourself on the best kind of deepest, wisest

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way. You're just going to set yourself up that you're going to

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have to do that work later.

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You mentioned the importance of pausing and taking

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stock after an experience before moving ahead. Are there a few

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key things that we want to keep in mind, as we're looking back

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and reflecting?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: I really love this question. So

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there's a couple different kind of ideas that jumped top of mind

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for me on this one. First of all, I actually love this

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practice of having what I love to call like my like, my failing

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journal, I know love people, love to, you know, journal about

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just kind of getting your all their thoughts and feelings out

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of their head, which is a great practice. I love a fail journal

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where when something doesn't work out, when I've dropped the

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ball or something outside of my control has happened, I'll just

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take a couple minutes and jot it down, but this is the key. I

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leave a lot of space underneath that entry, because I'm going to

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come back in three months. I might come back in six months,

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and I'm definitely going to come back at the end of the year,

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because I want to see how that failure, that setback, that

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lesson, that mistake, I want to see how it actually impacted my

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future. And sometimes when I go back, I realize, like, wow,

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like, I'm glad that that thing happened, because that then

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started this like domino effect, or this cascading of these other

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things that had that not happened, I wouldn't have gotten

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there. So having a failed journal and leaving space for

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it. It takes the kind of the shame and the power away of that

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feeling that, you know, oh, we don't want to document the bad

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stuff because we don't want to bring more of that into our

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lives, which is absolutely the opposite. It's like, when we

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actually start to see this, like tapestry of how all this is

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working together. It's pretty remarkable. So that's a one. The

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other one is, is just actually having a, you know, another kind

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of practice I love to use. It's a reoccurring appointment with

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myself. Or once a month, I just block off an hour, and I rarely

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take the full hour, but just do again, just a little bit of a

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check in. Like, how did last month go? What were some of the

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lessons learned? Or, you know, if there's something that I

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noticed I'm stuck on right? It might be a feeling. It might be

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an experience. I might notice, especially our stressors. We

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like to revisit those at like, 1am in the morning, so I take

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note of where I'm stuck. And what I do is just kind of that,

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once a month meeting with myself for just an hour and just kind

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of do that little check and notice, is there anywhere I'm

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stuck, is there anything that I need to maybe haven't processed

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yet? And just again, just having that little bit of

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accountability check. And what's so interesting, somebody

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recently said to me, they're like, you know, oh, I don't have

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an hour to check in with myself once a month. And it's like,

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you're going to be forced to take time down the road. I

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actually have gotten the point where, like, I look forward to

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it, right? Like, I look forward to just kind of slowing things

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down, taking stock, taking inventory, and again, not using

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it as, like, setting goals, per se, but just like, a really good

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kind of awareness. Pause. Just be like, okay, am I okay? And

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if, again, on that note, if I notice something that am stuck

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on that, I have to do some work on that. I'm going to set some

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intention to do some work on that. I'm going to revisit that.

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And the other question I love to ask in that place is, like,

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like, who, who's telling like, the kind of idea. Idea I have

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about this. It's like, where am I getting that information from?

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Like, is it being driven by my ego? Is it being driven by is it

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outside appearances? You know, is it being driven by somebody

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who is definitely not paying my mortgage? I'm really careful

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about kind of doing a wee bit of an autopsy of some of those big

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emotions to see who or where am I getting some of the

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information, because that stuff left unchecked festers in our

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psychology.

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Our show takes a very long term view of most

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topics, because it's focused on creating and leaving behind a

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legacy. So first of all, what does the word legacy mean to

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you?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: I love that question. What's so

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interesting for me, where I kind of really resonate with the idea

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of legacy. It's not like it's not remembering me, it's

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remembering the work or remembering how the work was

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done. So legacy, to me, is something that lives beyond the

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person, and it's around impact. And to me, one of the greatest

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blessings that I can hope to achieve in the work that I do

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again, around human resiliency and well being, is is not that

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it was, this is what she said, or this is what she talked

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about, is that ripple effect, for example, of hoping a

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strategy where people develop this philosophy that you know

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better days are ahead, and they don't need to know who

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necessarily said it, or how it came to be, it just becomes part

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of the collective. So I think it's taking ourselves out of it,

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but we're letting the goodness stay long after our time here.

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So talk about being resilient in the short

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term, maybe through a specific period of hardship, versus being

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resilient long term, over years or decades. How do those

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different, and are there different tools or steps to

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each?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah, again, another you're asking

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such cool questions. So I think, on the short term is when we

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lean in a lot more to some of the like the behavioral

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practices. So one of the reasons, for example, and you

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know, my first book that I put out was all about human

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performance and resiliency, and, you know, we talked about these

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pillars and but one of the things that, you know, the

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reason why the second book was the second book was one of the

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variables that we were able to come upon, is that the more a

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person looked after their whole well being like throughout their

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lives, outside or inside of a difficult season or a difficult

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situation, that actually offered them this really interesting

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hedge of protection from some of the negative things that would

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happen with somebody when they're experiencing practices

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of resiliency. So essentially, the more we look after ourselves

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when things are good and calm and things are manageable, the

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better we are positioned when things go off course. So that's

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why the second book that came out was about human well being,

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and what does it take to actually be well, especially

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when the world is so unwell. So what I the reason I'm sharing

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that is because when we think on the short term, it's what we do

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each and every day, that's going to set us up for our capacity to

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be resilient. So even, like what we said when we talked about

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that person who like, said, Hey, I don't have one hour a month to

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check in with myself if anything happens to them, right? They

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have no spaciousness in their life because they're already

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probably burned out, right? They're probably already

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overextended. Their resources are probably quite drained. So

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then that way when that bad thing happens, it's going to

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knock them out, versus someone who keeps that little bit of

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spaciousness, that little bit of awareness, that just that little

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bit of ease. So then that way they're able to bend and adapt

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when things go awry, and you need to have just a little bit

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of ebb and flow. We can't always operate kind of in the red or at

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100% because when that bad thing happens, it's going to knock us

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out. So the short term stuff is, like the everyday stuff now, in

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terms of, like the big picture, the kind of, you know, the

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looking at that kind of 1000 view of, kind of out of it, one

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of the things that we know about that is it becomes this, you

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know, this tapestry, or this narrative of how we show up in

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the world. And one of, to me, one of the greatest markers of

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resiliency that I don't think a lot of people talk about, is

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when people have gone through bad things or horrible things,

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like no good, rotten things, and they've processed it and done

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the work, and they can still be kind, that they can still be

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like, have faith and have trust, and they still lean into like

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humanity, people who have gone through just the worst of the

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worst things, yet somehow still believe in the good in the

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world. To me, that is like the pinnacle of resiliency, because

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people can get through stuff 100% but if you can get through

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stuff and still have a soft heart and still have a generous

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heart, you're you are winning on every level of life. You know, I

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do get concerned, though, again, as I said before, where people

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are rushing in the name of resiliency, or again, shutting

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themselves down or blocking things, and it's like no. The

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whole idea is that we process it in such a way, and we show up in

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how we're living our lives in such a way that we're not

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defined by our past, that the past happened absolutely but

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that doesn't preclude that big future where we trust that all

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will be well and that, you know, better days are ahead and and

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that living, hope filled is a really beautiful way, especially

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as we age. You know the fact that if we can stay soft as

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we're aging, and we can still have faith in humanity like

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again, that's that's, to me, what will. Really make the

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difference in how somebody approaches their recoveries or

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their comebacks.

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How does resiliency play into someone's

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trying to achieve their legacy goals? For that matter, what are

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some of the most effective and proven ways towards achieving

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any goal, including lifelong goals?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Again it's one of the things that's so

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interesting, is that, I think so often when we think about goals

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is this, this notion that it's like a final destination, right?

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Like this is what we're trying to get to, but the reality it's

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like the things that we do each and every day with consistency

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and with intention that's going to give us the best return on

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our investments. So that notion that, like, it's not always

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meant to be like, this positive, smooth upswing, that there's

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going to be setbacks. That's part of learning. Like, learning

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is messy. It's even just this past weekend, I had a

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conversation with another group of parents, and, you know,

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they're, you know, commiserating about the fact that they're, you

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know, teenager was in a mood, and I just paused the

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conversation because I think, for example, teenagers get such

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a brutal reputation in our society where it's like, gosh,

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they're, they're not adults, and they're not kids. And anyway,

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and I said to the person, I'm like, do you expect your

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teenager to be in a good mood every single day? Do you expect

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them to be like, you know, chasing those goals and locked

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in and hungry for their features every single day? And the person

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was like, well, sort of, I'm like, Are you in a good mood

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every single day? Like, as a grown person, like, are you

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every single day locked in moving that needle forward, you

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know, always in this positive, you know, Outlook and, you know,

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there was just this little bit of this pause where it's like,

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yeah, well, we are. It's not that human condition isn't meant

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to be in this smooth, static state of always improving,

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always going the right direction, so making space for

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the realness of each and every day. And if we kind of embrace

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that little bit of that messiness and the ebbs and flows

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that is our nature, we will have a better experience working

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towards that trajectory of legacy as we age, as we go, you

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know, move forward when we realize it's not meant to be

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smooth, and there's going to be, you know, this pause right where

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you do the work and you realize, okay, so this is one experience.

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And you know what mountain ranges tend to be? Have lots of

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summits, and recognizing that there is an opportunity to be

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able to Okay, now let's look at the next summit and, and

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sometimes our legacy isn't just one thing. It's like this

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mountain range. It's this foothills, it's these valleys

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and, and that, in itself, is a testament to just how amazing

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the lived experience can be. Well, we give ourselves

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permission that we're not perfect and we don't need to be

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to have a really great life.

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Prioritization is a big part of setting and

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achieving goals, both big and small. What are the best ways to

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prioritize what matters most to you in your journey?

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Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah, so one of the things I can, I

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can share with you and on a couple different notes around

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like that, prioritization. I think sometimes people get a

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little bit confused about time management and priority

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management, about like, how do we fit time into these things?

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And when things are a priority, we make the time we we can,

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like, create these non negotiables around that time. So

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if we have kind of too many things happening at play, time

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becomes a factor. But when we have radical clarity of what

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matters most, and we make it matter most, things become a lot

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more kind of straight, streamlined for us. So I think

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again, just kind of wrestling with that notion of time

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management versus the priority. So often I'd say people say to

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me, like, this is my priority, but I don't have enough time,

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right? And time has such an illusion, and you know, that

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notion of not having enough time, it ties into that scarcity

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mindset. And I hear people all the time wake up and say, you

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know, Rob and I didn't get enough sleep last night, or I

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don't have a I don't have the right team that's going to help

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me make this project move forward. And they're always kind

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of on their back foot, versus that sufficiency mindset, that

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trust, that I'm well resourced, that I can figure this stuff

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out, is just one right decision after another. So again,

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priority and time management is one of those stumbling blocks

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that I think offers some help. And the other one that we often

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talk about is, again, there's so many noise there's so much noise

Gary Michels:

and negativity and distractions, where all of a sudden we might

Gary Michels:

not even notice, because we're on autopilot, that we're making

Gary Michels:

things a priority that are not a priority. So again, it's that

Gary Michels:

noise if we're on autopilot, if we're not careful, we feel like

Gary Michels:

we just ought to do or we should do, when the reality is it's

Gary Michels:

like the stuff that matters most. It's like right in front

Gary Michels:

of us, if we give it the right attention.

Gary Michels:

Your debut book covering many of these topics is

Gary Michels:

called Calm within the Storm, a pathway to everyday resiliency.

Gary Michels:

I love it. That's a great title. Tell us a bit about the book,

Gary Michels:

and also your your second book Stress Wisely. That's a good

Gary Michels:

name, which is out now.

Gary Michels:

Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: So book number one really dives into

Gary Michels:

human resiliency, like, how do people, like, build resilient

Gary Michels:

practices that are going to let them live a good life, like, how

Gary Michels:

they can bounce back, build those comebacks when they're

Gary Michels:

going through something challenging. The second book,

Gary Michels:

stress wisely. One of the things that was so cool that we learned

Gary Michels:

about in our research is usually there's this heavy emphasis on

Gary Michels:

physical well being, right, sleep, nutrition, exercise.

Gary Michels:

Absence of disease, that's what everyone was talking about. Then

Gary Michels:

I stumbled on research that talks about, for example, like

Gary Michels:

loneliness will kill you faster than a bad diet. Yet we are

Gary Michels:

talking about social connection, and we're not talking about,

Gary Michels:

like, building communities the same way what we are hype cycled

Gary Michels:

by nutrition and all of that kind of stuff, even though we

Gary Michels:

know this is more detrimental to us as a group of people. So what

Gary Michels:

stress wisely, really started to do is, like, unpack a lot of

Gary Michels:

this, like, misinformation that's out there about well

Gary Michels:

being, and really took a holistic approach that says, You

Gary Michels:

know what? Sometimes the best thing that you could do for your

Gary Michels:

well being today is actually not run to the gym and, like, try to

Gary Michels:

hate yourself healthy. The best thing you could actually do is,

Gary Michels:

like, clean out your car, like, literally, just tidy up your

Gary Michels:

environment, experience an immediate win. Be able to bask

Gary Michels:

in just a little bit of organization and accomplishment.

Gary Michels:

Because going to the gym, yes, it's important, and it has its

Gary Michels:

place. But if you're so tired, burned out and depleted, the

Gary Michels:

last thing you need to do is punch your body with all that

Gary Michels:

extra cortisol, give yourself some gentle wins being able to

Gary Michels:

just have that tidy space. And then guess what? The next day,

Gary Michels:

when you're feeling a little bit better, you take that clean car,

Gary Michels:

you drive to the gym, and you're starting to always feel like

Gary Michels:

you're having this positive momentum. So stress wisely

Gary Michels:

unpacks the eight realms of wellness. It's full of these

Gary Michels:

really practical ways of like, how to show up today for the

Gary Michels:

best return on your investment for tomorrow.

Gary Michels:

You also expand upon your work in your online

Gary Michels:

community called Anchor Labs, which focuses on resiliency for

Gary Michels:

leaders. Tell us about Anchor Labs.

Gary Michels:

Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah so anchor Labs is kind of that.

Gary Michels:

Kind of was the answer to folks after I've worked with them, to

Gary Michels:

say, like, what else right? I want to dive deeper. I want to

Gary Michels:

spend more time learning about some of these, like,

Gary Michels:

undercurrents of these behaviors. So anchor Labs is a

Gary Michels:

series of courses that allows people, at a self paced kind of

Gary Michels:

way, to embrace and kind of dive deeper into some of these

Gary Michels:

concepts and really get sustained results, which,

Gary Michels:

whereas as scientists, that's what we're all about. We want to

Gary Michels:

make sure people have the tools to be able to have the outcomes

Gary Michels:

that so many people are promised, but don't actually

Gary Michels:

have a chance of having. But we actually found a way to get that

Gary Michels:

to people, which it's really exciting to be part of.

Gary Michels:

And you also co host a weekly podcast with

Gary Michels:

singer and songwriter Peter Katz, titled In Time. Peter is

Gary Michels:

from such a different background than you. How did the two of you

Gary Michels:

come together and collaborate?

Gary Michels:

Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah, so Peter Katz is my co host, and

Gary Michels:

he is a brilliant singer songwriter. He is just a

Gary Michels:

remarkable, talented human who is also deeply creative as the

Gary Michels:

takes to be a master in that field. And so Peter and I, we've

Gary Michels:

been friends for a really long time, and this is this kind of

Gary Michels:

neat thing that ended up happening. So Peter and I,

Gary Michels:

again, we come from such different perspectives, right?

Gary Michels:

Like, he's literally a musician, I'm a scientist. And what would

Gary Michels:

happen is we would be like, just chit chatting. We'd be talking

Gary Michels:

about something, and then we noticed people would be like,

Gary Michels:

listening, right? Like we could be in like a coffee shop having

Gary Michels:

a chat, or going down for a walk on on the boardwalk, and then

Gary Michels:

people just be like, how did you guys like? What did you guys

Gary Michels:

say? Or how did you come upon that? And it's just really

Gary Michels:

enriched conversation from different world views. And I

Gary Michels:

think so often we spend a lot of our time with like minded

Gary Michels:

people, which is great. We want to surround ourselves with

Gary Michels:

people that are going to elevate us and move us forward, but they

Gary Michels:

tend to be the people who think a lot like we do. And what we

Gary Michels:

wanted to offer, what we shared with the world is this, like,

Gary Michels:

once a week, little check in where we just are. We're just

Gary Michels:

having a conversation about, you know, what, what we're seeing,

Gary Michels:

what we're going through. Both of us are also professional

Gary Michels:

speakers, so we're kind of always traveling around the

Gary Michels:

world and and we call it in time, because we just drop in

Gary Michels:

for half an hour wherever we are, and we just talk about

Gary Michels:

things that that we're seeing and patterns and trends that we

Gary Michels:

notice are happening and and really just try to offer people

Gary Michels:

like this place where, you know, we can have dialog and discourse

Gary Michels:

and just talk about something other than all that negativity,

Gary Michels:

unfortunately, that just is so prevalent right Now in our

Gary Michels:

lives, and kind of a safe space where people can land just to,

Gary Michels:

like, listen to some cool ideas that maybe could shift some ways

Gary Michels:

of seeing the world. I gave you a really quick example of a neat

Gary Michels:

little learning that happened really early on when we were on

Gary Michels:

this podcast together. I made a comment just really quickly, and

Gary Michels:

I said, you know, oh, this will allow me to kind of kill two

Gary Michels:

birds with one stone, right? It's an expression that I grew

Gary Michels:

up with, seems like, yeah, people get it. And he paused and

Gary Michels:

he said, or do you think you could try to feed like two birds

Gary Michels:

from one hand? And he's just like, Robin, your language is so

Gary Michels:

aggressive, like, you have really violent language at

Gary Michels:

times. And I'm like, what? And he's like, Yeah. He said, you

Gary Michels:

know? He said, You, you know, you Yeah, had this great

Gary Michels:

interview. You killed it. And he's like, or were you really

Gary Michels:

impactful, right? So as a creative He's so sensitive to

Gary Michels:

language, because, again, he's a master of words, and just this,

Gary Michels:

like, radical kind of interruption for me, where all

Gary Michels:

of a sudden everybody's like, wow, I use really, really

Gary Michels:

aggressive language, even though I would say, like, I really care

Gary Michels:

deeply about people, and I'm so tender hearted, wow, I didn't

Gary Michels:

even notice how. Aggressive. Sometimes my language was so

Gary Michels:

again again. It's just something so simple as how we describe

Gary Michels:

something and how when we hear it from another person's

Gary Michels:

perspective, it just, it's just a really cool learning and

Gary Michels:

anytime we can have those like, wow, I never saw it that way. I

Gary Michels:

just think that's this beautiful, like, there's just so

Gary Michels:

much possibility there to just really shift our thinking in an

Gary Michels:

elevated way.

Gary Michels:

What legacy do you hope to leave behind through

Gary Michels:

your professional work, anchor labs, the podcast and groups you

Gary Michels:

speak with and to?

Gary Michels:

Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: On a professional level? The legacy

Gary Michels:

that I want to offer is that hope is a strategy for all of

Gary Michels:

this, in terms of resiliency, in terms of well being like, I just

Gary Michels:

want that to be something that people carry into the future,

Gary Michels:

that we're not defined by the worst things that have happened

Gary Michels:

to us, that there's these comebacks that are available.

Gary Michels:

And I just really want that to permeate that, yeah, there's a

Gary Michels:

lot of hardship in the world, a lot of injustice, a lot of bad

Gary Michels:

parts, and there's a way through it, so that professionally, I

Gary Michels:

want to, I do want to radically shift how we think about

Gary Michels:

resiliency, to include it, to also include hope.

Gary Michels:

So how is that different from what you'd

Gary Michels:

consider to be your personal legacy?

Gary Michels:

Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: Yeah, so it definitely has. There's

Gary Michels:

definitely parts that break together. For me, the legacy and

Gary Michels:

she was someone that was very generous, that she forgave, and

Gary Michels:

she was very generous with forgiveness. She was very

Gary Michels:

generous with the people in her lives. And again, you don't need

Gary Michels:

to remember me. I just want you to remember how I made other

Gary Michels:

people feel, that they felt that generosity.

Gary Michels:

Where can our listeners connect with you and

Gary Michels:

pick up copies of your books, your the podcast, or learn more?

Gary Michels:

Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe: So the best starting place again at Dr,

Gary Michels:

robyne.ca, Robyne with an E and again, on social. I find social

Gary Michels:

is a great way to be able to keep these conversations going.

Gary Michels:

So Dr, Robyne, on social and again, thank you so much for

Gary Michels:

just asking such big, beautiful questions. Thank you for just

Gary Michels:

being so prepared for this. And I really appreciate your work.

Gary Michels:

I've been listening to your podcast in my morning walks, and

Gary Michels:

I just love the work that you're doing, like it's just such a

Gary Michels:

refreshing approach that you cover so many different topics,

Gary Michels:

and I love it. I just love that you're putting this into the world.

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About the Podcast

Let's Talk Legacy
Presented by Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group
What does it mean to build and maintain a legacy, either in business, or for your loved ones? What tools and resources are available to help? Join the discussion as host Gary Michels, along with exciting guests and real listeners just like you, tackle the answers to these questions, and learn how to grow today, for a better tomorrow.



Southwestern/Great American, Inc., dba Southwestern Family of Companies, for itself and its related entities and their assigns, reserves and retains all rights to their copyrighted materials and trademarks contained in this podcast. Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group is an affiliate of Family First Life.
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