Legacy, Lyrics, and Life, with Shawna Wells

Gary Michels: 00:00:00

Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy. I'm your host, Gary

Gary Michels: 00:00:02

Michels, and today we have Shawna Wells with us. She's an

Gary Michels: 00:00:05

author, speaker and coach, as well as Founder and CEO of 7Gen

Gary Michels: 00:00:10

Legacy Group, and the host of Legacy, Lyrics and Life podcast.

Gary Michels: 00:00:14

I love it. So before we dive in, I just wanted to let you know

Gary Michels: 00:00:19

we're both here in Vegas, practically neighbors. How did

Gary Michels: 00:00:21

you make your way to Las Vegas?

Shawna Wells: 00:00:24

This is always the question, so it's It's in two

Shawna Wells: 00:00:26

parts, and thanks for having me, Gary. So I moved to Las Vegas

Shawna Wells: 00:00:30

in 2004 through an organization called Teach for America. I was

Shawna Wells: 00:00:33

placed in a school to teach seventh grade reading, and so

Shawna Wells: 00:00:38

proudly, taught at JD Smith Middle school for two years, and

Shawna Wells: 00:00:41

then I left. I went back home to Philadelphia, which, as you

Shawna Wells: 00:00:44

know, Gary living here. People come and go a lot, and I founded

Shawna Wells: 00:00:48

a school. I was a principal. I stayed in Philly, that's my

Shawna Wells: 00:00:51

hometown. So when I was here, met my now partner, and when I

Shawna Wells: 00:00:55

finished in Philadelphia, he called and said, Hey, are you

Shawna Wells: 00:00:59

thinking of moving somewhere? And I said no, and he said, How

Shawna Wells: 00:01:02

about back to Las Vegas? And I said, I don't know. And he's

Shawna Wells: 00:01:05

like, because I'd like to get married. And so I ended up back

Shawna Wells: 00:01:09

here with my now partner and three kids, and here I am. So

Shawna Wells: 00:01:14

now I've been here for 14 years.

Gary Michels: 00:01:17

So you call yourself a legacy architect. I

Gary Michels: 00:01:20

love that. Tell us what exactly does that mean and what does

Gary Michels: 00:01:24

that cover?

Shawna Wells: 00:01:26

Yes, so I hope most people are here to leave

Shawna Wells: 00:01:30

the world better than they found it. I hope that's a hope of

Shawna Wells: 00:01:33

mine, and as we work alongside people who are working to do

Shawna Wells: 00:01:37

good in the world, social impact leaders, nonprofit leaders,

Shawna Wells: 00:01:40

chief officers in education, what we've come to understand is

Shawna Wells: 00:01:45

that people are here to do well and not always thinking about

Shawna Wells: 00:01:49

the declaration they want to make on behalf of a life well

Shawna Wells: 00:01:51

lived. And so what I do is I get the opportunity to work with

Shawna Wells: 00:01:55

leaders who come to us for various reasons, and I'll tell

Shawna Wells: 00:01:58

you a few questions they ask us when they get on the phone with

Shawna Wells: 00:02:00

us, the first is, I want to figure out what my next job is.

Shawna Wells: 00:02:04

The second is, I want to figure out how to spend my time better.

Shawna Wells: 00:02:07

I want to figure out how to manage my team better. Or I'm

Shawna Wells: 00:02:10

just confused. I'm not really sure where to go next. Some

Shawna Wells: 00:02:14

people call this a quarter life or a midlife crisis, but a lot

Shawna Wells: 00:02:17

of people come to us with those types of questions, and what we

Shawna Wells: 00:02:21

do is we think about, well, what's the legacy that you're

Shawna Wells: 00:02:24

aiming to live? And we choose the word live, because when most

Shawna Wells: 00:02:28

people think about this word legacy, they think it's big and

Shawna Wells: 00:02:31

they think it's about dying. And so what we do is we help them

Shawna Wells: 00:02:35

articulate or declare in one small statement, what is it that

Shawna Wells: 00:02:39

you're here to do in the finite amount of time that you have

Shawna Wells: 00:02:43

with, frankly, finite possibilities for the time that

Shawna Wells: 00:02:45

you can spend. What do you want to do? What are you here to do?

Shawna Wells: 00:02:48

And then how do you shape your life, your organization, your

Shawna Wells: 00:02:51

leadership team, around what you said you want to do? And where

Shawna Wells: 00:02:56

are the spots where you're leaking, where there are

Shawna Wells: 00:02:59

betrayals of self that are deeply impacting your ability to

Shawna Wells: 00:03:03

align, feel fulfillment or connection.

Gary Michels: 00:03:05

Is it almost like an affirmation?

Shawna Wells: 00:03:08

So it's a little bit more, I think it's more

Shawna Wells: 00:03:10

powerful than an affirmation, if you think about it in a company,

Shawna Wells: 00:03:13

it's an evolution of maybe a mission statement. For example,

Shawna Wells: 00:03:17

it is saying and getting very clear on what is important to

Shawna Wells: 00:03:21

me, and what are the things that I really want to do in this

Shawna Wells: 00:03:24

lifetime to make that happen. And so it's the constructing of

Shawna Wells: 00:03:29

here's the rules that I want to live by, and here's the impact I

Shawna Wells: 00:03:33

expect they will make between now and the time my last breath

Shawna Wells: 00:03:36

on this planet. And one of the most beautiful things that

Shawna Wells: 00:03:39

mentor and teach. Our mind says is it's not in the amount of the

Shawna Wells: 00:03:42

years, it's in the amount of breaths. And so at seven Jen, we

Shawna Wells: 00:03:46

talk a lot about, well, as you're breathing through life,

Shawna Wells: 00:03:48

what are the things that you want to do? How do you want to

Shawna Wells: 00:03:52

be as you do them? And those two things combined can help you

Shawna Wells: 00:03:57

leave the impact or the fingerprints that you want to

Shawna Wells: 00:04:00

leave on the next generations to come. And the reality is, we're

Shawna Wells: 00:04:03

all leaving a legacy, whether you claim it or not, we're all

Shawna Wells: 00:04:06

leaving one.

Gary Michels: 00:04:07

What does word legacy mean to you in general?

Shawna Wells: 00:04:10

All right, so when you go to Google and you type in

Shawna Wells: 00:04:12

legacy, the first definition of legacy is to leave something

Shawna Wells: 00:04:16

behind, particularly material by will. And the example is she

Shawna Wells: 00:04:22

left someone a legacy of a million dollars. And when I hear

Shawna Wells: 00:04:27

that definition, it just makes my heartbeat a little faster and

Shawna Wells: 00:04:30

makes my skin crawl a little bit, because what it means is

Shawna Wells: 00:04:33

the only way to leave a legacy is with cash and the work that

Shawna Wells: 00:04:38

you do, you know Gary like there's so much actually behind

Shawna Wells: 00:04:42

the cash.

Gary Michels: 00:04:43

Yeah.

Shawna Wells: 00:04:44

Money is data, right? It's where we spend our

Shawna Wells: 00:04:46

time. I say often to our clients, listen, you have three

Shawna Wells: 00:04:49

moral, moral documents that you live by. You've got your budget,

Shawna Wells: 00:04:52

you've got your calendar, and you've got the photos you take

Shawna Wells: 00:04:55

on your phone, if you have a phone that takes pictures,

Shawna Wells: 00:04:58

right? Those are the three things. Really document your

Shawna Wells: 00:05:00

life that tells you what you care about, because you're

Shawna Wells: 00:05:03

willing to spend time and energy on it. So when we define legacy,

Shawna Wells: 00:05:06

what we say is legacy is a life well lived by way of six realms.

Shawna Wells: 00:05:11

And so I'll share the six realms, because I think they're

Shawna Wells: 00:05:13

helpful to make legacy a little bit smaller as we start to think

Shawna Wells: 00:05:17

about then, what do I do with that? So play, you can leave a

Shawna Wells: 00:05:21

legacy of play. And we start with play, because most people

Shawna Wells: 00:05:24

try to leave legacy at work, and so it's a little bit disruptive.

Shawna Wells: 00:05:28

So a legacy of play. How do you play? How do you teach others

Shawna Wells: 00:05:31

how to play? How do you use play to disrupt generationally, maybe

Shawna Wells: 00:05:36

some of the harmful patterns that have been put in place well

Shawna Wells: 00:05:40

being. How do you leave a legacy of well being, both spiritually

Shawna Wells: 00:05:45

and emotionally and physically? The second the third realm,

Shawna Wells: 00:05:48

relationships and community. What's the legacy you're living

Shawna Wells: 00:05:52

by inside of your relationship, in your community? How are you

Shawna Wells: 00:05:54

treating the people around you? How are you building with them?

Shawna Wells: 00:05:57

What have you teared down a legacy of financial freedom. And

Shawna Wells: 00:06:01

we say financial freedom because it's not about accumulating as

Shawna Wells: 00:06:04

much. It's your as you can. It's about accumulating enough to

Shawna Wells: 00:06:08

live the life in which you find energy, joy, commitment,

Shawna Wells: 00:06:12

connection, and the ability to move through the tensions that

Shawna Wells: 00:06:15

that creates a legacy of service. How do you choose to

Shawna Wells: 00:06:19

serve? And then a legacy of work. And we take the two apart,

Shawna Wells: 00:06:23

because most people, a lot of people we work with, work in

Shawna Wells: 00:06:26

lines of service, and those two things in bed together can cause

Shawna Wells: 00:06:31

a relationship of tension, right? I'm wrapping myself

Shawna Wells: 00:06:34

around my work and my service, and I have lost my identity. So

Shawna Wells: 00:06:37

those six areas are where we can start when we think about

Shawna Wells: 00:06:39

legacy.

Gary Michels: 00:06:40

So two big words that you seem central to leaving

Gary Michels: 00:06:44

a legacy are intention and impact. I love those words

Gary Michels: 00:06:48

because they're such powerful words. What's the importance of

Gary Michels: 00:06:51

those words to you?

Shawna Wells: 00:06:52

Oh, gosh, well, I would. I'm going to add a third

Shawna Wells: 00:06:55

word, which is alignment. So you go to the chiropractor. Have you

Shawna Wells: 00:07:00

been?

Gary Michels: 00:07:00

I've been, yes.

Shawna Wells: 00:07:02

So you know when you go to the chiropractor.

Shawna Wells: 00:07:03

There's like, they do some moves unless, like, I didn't even know

Shawna Wells: 00:07:06

I had bones that move right though, all the cracks that you

Shawna Wells: 00:07:09

feel when you go to the chiropractor moving your body

Shawna Wells: 00:07:12

into alignment. If you believe in that kind of medicine, when

Shawna Wells: 00:07:14

we think about legacy, we think all of these things, as you

Shawna Wells: 00:07:17

mentioned, are connected and are coming into alignment with one

Shawna Wells: 00:07:20

another in order for you to live intentionally and build towards

Shawna Wells: 00:07:24

impact. So those three words really are in relationship to

Shawna Wells: 00:07:28

one another when we're working inside of legacy, which is to

Shawna Wells: 00:07:31

say you've got your legacy statement. What would it mean to

Shawna Wells: 00:07:34

align all of these pieces to it? And then how does that help you

Shawna Wells: 00:07:37

build with intention and leave and live the impact that you

Shawna Wells: 00:07:41

intend.

Gary Michels: 00:07:42

So you work with people and companies to build

Gary Michels: 00:07:45

impact you say will last for the next seven generations. We

Gary Michels: 00:07:49

actually had a guest on previously, who was a Native

Gary Michels: 00:07:52

American historian, and spoke about the seven generations

Gary Michels: 00:07:56

principle as being very important to her people as well.

Gary Michels: 00:08:00

Can you share why seven is the magic number as opposed to five

Gary Michels: 00:08:04

or nine or 11? Why seven?

Shawna Wells: 00:08:07

We feel deeply connected to this principle

Shawna Wells: 00:08:09

because of the wisdom that have come from the indigenous and for

Shawna Wells: 00:08:12

me, in particular, from the African people. At the thought

Shawna Wells: 00:08:15

of Sankofa, right? In order to go, in order to learn, you need

Shawna Wells: 00:08:18

to go back to be able to pick up the gifts from the last

Shawna Wells: 00:08:21

generation. I am a data head. So then we put research to it. What

Shawna Wells: 00:08:25

do we know about generational right now? The thing that's most

Shawna Wells: 00:08:29

measured is wealth, generational wealth, and what does it mean to

Shawna Wells: 00:08:33

stay and so two things we found out. The first is that three

Shawna Wells: 00:08:36

generations of wealth is the pivot point of being able to

Shawna Wells: 00:08:41

build sustainably, a legacy of wealth. Well, in order to do

Shawna Wells: 00:08:45

that, if you look at some of the wealthiest people, like the

Shawna Wells: 00:08:49

carnegies, for example, in order to do that, you have to have all

Shawna Wells: 00:08:52

sorts of familial structures around that, and you've got to

Shawna Wells: 00:08:56

be able to meet and talk about the things that are most

Shawna Wells: 00:08:59

important to you and for them, it was about the passing of

Shawna Wells: 00:09:01

money. We said, what if we apply what we know to every other

Shawna Wells: 00:09:05

realm? What does that mean? Well, in three generations, you

Shawna Wells: 00:09:09

gain the things that you need, or the thought processes that

Shawna Wells: 00:09:13

you need, the structures that you need to really carry forth

Shawna Wells: 00:09:16

the belief system of your lineage. After three

Shawna Wells: 00:09:19

generations, then it's on the next three generations to really

Shawna Wells: 00:09:22

make that solidified, to make sure that everything that has

Shawna Wells: 00:09:26

been passed on continues to get passed, and that last

Shawna Wells: 00:09:30

generation, the seventh generation, we hope, then gets

Shawna Wells: 00:09:32

to live in freedom. Now, do we have proof? No, because I

Shawna Wells: 00:09:36

haven't lived for seven generations. I don't know,

Shawna Wells: 00:09:38

right, but I do rely on the wisdom, and we rely on the

Shawna Wells: 00:09:41

wisdom of those who have come before us to tell us this

Shawna Wells: 00:09:45

generational thinking is helpful. Generations is 20 years

Shawna Wells: 00:09:48

in the making. So if we go back three generations, that takes us

Shawna Wells: 00:09:51

back to the year 1965 so you can think about what was happening

Shawna Wells: 00:09:56

in 1965 and the generational impact that we experienced. Less

Shawna Wells: 00:10:00

than three generations. There are five generations in the

Shawna Wells: 00:10:03

workforce, which is why we're experiencing so much friction

Shawna Wells: 00:10:07

that people the newest generation is having trouble

Shawna Wells: 00:10:10

understanding the oldest generation, and so it's been

Shawna Wells: 00:10:14

hard, right? Why we're so mad at all the different millennials,

Shawna Wells: 00:10:17

Gen Zs, Gen X, right? All those things boomers, right? We're so

Shawna Wells: 00:10:21

annoyed with each other because we just don't understand

Shawna Wells: 00:10:23

generationally, all different life experience that are

Shawna Wells: 00:10:26

informing our decision making and what we value. And so we

Shawna Wells: 00:10:29

take this principle and we spread it over seven

Shawna Wells: 00:10:31

generations. We think if we can lead to continuity of the

Shawna Wells: 00:10:34

conversation, then we can start to connect in different ways.

Gary Michels: 00:10:38

Do you feel like there needs to be more work done

Gary Michels: 00:10:41

on the different generations understanding each other more?

Shawna Wells: 00:10:44

Completely. Part of it is, if you really think

Shawna Wells: 00:10:47

about our responsibility to each other, is to understand the

Shawna Wells: 00:10:52

conditions in which people are coming to us and figure out how

Shawna Wells: 00:10:56

that relates to our own lives and well being. And I think

Shawna Wells: 00:11:00

about my own grandmother. She loves chocolate, and so I

Shawna Wells: 00:11:03

ordered chocolate to her house using Uber, and it arrived at

Shawna Wells: 00:11:07

her doorstep. Now my grandmother was she grew up in Alabama, and

Shawna Wells: 00:11:12

she was a sharecropper, and her family also sharecroppers, and

Shawna Wells: 00:11:18

she was the first entrepreneur that I've met, and I draw a lot

Shawna Wells: 00:11:22

of strength from her, but she could not understand how I use

Shawna Wells: 00:11:26

my phone to order chocolate to her house from a whole different

Shawna Wells: 00:11:30

zip code. She just didn't get it. So then you think about

Shawna Wells: 00:11:34

that's like, just a silly example, but you think about,

Shawna Wells: 00:11:36

then all of the ways in which we're just living differently

Shawna Wells: 00:11:39

because I don't know it, my automatic human instinct is to

Shawna Wells: 00:11:42

judge it, because I don't know it, right? And I feel I'm like,

Shawna Wells: 00:11:45

oh, I should know this. I'm older, right? And so part of it

Shawna Wells: 00:11:48

is we need new systems and conditions to be able to talk

Shawna Wells: 00:11:52

generationally. And one of the things that we're really proud

Shawna Wells: 00:11:55

of is that we run this program in high schools to help students

Shawna Wells: 00:11:59

really start to think about what's the legacy I want to live

Shawna Wells: 00:12:02

and leave, so that they can that they can make informed decisions

Shawna Wells: 00:12:05

about, Do I want to go to college, or do I want to do

Shawna Wells: 00:12:07

something else? Or when I say I want to build generational

Shawna Wells: 00:12:09

wealth, what do I actually mean? One of the first assignments we

Shawna Wells: 00:12:12

ask them to do is find someone who is 60 years or older and

Shawna Wells: 00:12:17

interview them. We help them write the questions for the

Shawna Wells: 00:12:19

interview and the kinds of things that they learn that help

Shawna Wells: 00:12:22

them and gain perspective on their own existence is really

Shawna Wells: 00:12:27

magical, because they're not thinking about that. I'm not

Shawna Wells: 00:12:31

thinking about that. So slowing down long enough to ask

Shawna Wells: 00:12:35

questions is a real gift. I know my teacher used to say, you're

Shawna Wells: 00:12:40

going to use this algebra every day? Well, I never, I don't

Shawna Wells: 00:12:43

think I use algebra ever. We have people who run numbers in

Shawna Wells: 00:12:46

our company, right? But this concept of we're going to use

Shawna Wells: 00:12:51

these mindsets every single day. We're going to use this idea of

Shawna Wells: 00:12:54

legacy every single day to help us make decisions in our lives

Shawna Wells: 00:12:58

through our you know, our teens, our 20s, our 30s, that's what

Shawna Wells: 00:13:02

we're working to give so people can work with us. We come into

Shawna Wells: 00:13:05

high schools and we actually embed ourselves inside of the

Shawna Wells: 00:13:08

high school. We work alongside teachers and leaders to help

Shawna Wells: 00:13:11

them understand the concepts of legacy, and then to take that

Shawna Wells: 00:13:14

and work with their students to really help them think about

Shawna Wells: 00:13:18

when I make this big choice at 18 years old to do whatever is

Shawna Wells: 00:13:22

next for me. What do I want to consider? And of course, it will

Shawna Wells: 00:13:25

change. We all change. I'm different than when I was 18.

Shawna Wells: 00:13:27

But what are the questions I might ask myself to really

Shawna Wells: 00:13:31

understand what it is I'm trying to do?

Gary Michels: 00:13:33

Is there one big story that you think our

Gary Michels: 00:13:36

listeners would really touch their heart a little bit, or

Gary Michels: 00:13:38

something that touches your heart?

Shawna Wells: 00:13:40

Yeah, I'll tell you. We worked with a

Shawna Wells: 00:13:43

beautiful... so we work with clients in many different ways.

Shawna Wells: 00:13:46

So we worked with a beautiful human on her personal legacy

Shawna Wells: 00:13:50

statement, a new mom, a chief executive in a social impact

Shawna Wells: 00:13:55

organization, really trying to figure out, what is this life

Shawna Wells: 00:14:00

that I have accepted. I'm pretty exhausted, and that's what she

Shawna Wells: 00:14:03

came to us. And when we meet with folks, the first question

Shawna Wells: 00:14:06

we ask is, you know, what are you aiming to do, and what is a

Shawna Wells: 00:14:10

legacy or aiming to live and leave? After our first session,

Shawna Wells: 00:14:13

she said, I did a lot of thinking. She came back to our

Shawna Wells: 00:14:16

second session, and she said, I love the work that I do. I did

Shawna Wells: 00:14:20

not think about it next to what it means to be the mom I want to

Shawna Wells: 00:14:25

be. I said, Well, what does that mean? And she said, My son is

Shawna Wells: 00:14:29

not well, like he has a generational disease, and I have

Shawna Wells: 00:14:34

chosen to locate my family in a place where he cannot get access

Shawna Wells: 00:14:39

to the doctors that he needs because of my work. I said,

Shawna Wells: 00:14:42

Well, what are you going to do about that? She said, My legacy

Shawna Wells: 00:14:44

tells me I have to change jobs. And so she worked for 18 months

Shawna Wells: 00:14:50

to build up the financial freedom she needed, the

Shawna Wells: 00:14:53

relationship she needed, the community she needed in the

Shawna Wells: 00:14:56

place where her son could get the best care, and she moved

Shawna Wells: 00:14:59

and. Is all of that because she interrogated, what is it that

Shawna Wells: 00:15:03

I'm really about? What do I care about? And I tell that story

Shawna Wells: 00:15:05

because, notice, it took her 18 months to get from where she was

Shawna Wells: 00:15:09

to where she wanted to be. Most people think legacy. Once I got

Shawna Wells: 00:15:13

my personal legacy statement, I'm going to change all the

Shawna Wells: 00:15:15

things. And we're actually working with people to say, No,

Shawna Wells: 00:15:18

build the life that you want over time to get to the outcome

Shawna Wells: 00:15:23

you want to get to. And I just share that story because we

Shawna Wells: 00:15:27

started working with her, because she wanted help as a

Shawna Wells: 00:15:30

leader, to build the team and the structure and time

Shawna Wells: 00:15:33

management and all those things. She really made a personal

Shawna Wells: 00:15:36

decision to say, I have constructed a life that used to

Shawna Wells: 00:15:41

feel relevant and no longer does and made did the hard work to

Shawna Wells: 00:15:45

shift and change it. Sometimes we convince ourselves we don't

Shawna Wells: 00:15:48

have the power or agency to do that we actually do. But back to

Shawna Wells: 00:15:53

those words of intention and impact. It takes intention to

Shawna Wells: 00:15:57

get to the impact that we intend, and these times, it's

Shawna Wells: 00:16:01

easy to get distracted by things that by the next best thing, and

Shawna Wells: 00:16:07

to be able to really come back to the self and research the

Shawna Wells: 00:16:09

self is a real testament to the work of legacy.

Gary Michels: 00:16:12

Love it. So what legacy do you hope to leave

Gary Michels: 00:16:17

behind through your work?

Shawna Wells: 00:16:18

Yes, oh, I have my own personal legacy statement. I

Shawna Wells: 00:16:21

recommend we all have one. So when I first wrote my legacy

Shawna Wells: 00:16:24

statement, you'll hear on my podcast, what I share is it was

Shawna Wells: 00:16:27

so flat. Someone asked me, Well, what's wrong with that? And I

Shawna Wells: 00:16:31

said, Well, flat is different than simple. When I first wrote

Shawna Wells: 00:16:35

my legacy statement, it was all surrounded. It was woven into

Shawna Wells: 00:16:38

work, my definition of success because of the lineage I came

Shawna Wells: 00:16:42

from. My parents did the best that they could. They worked a

Shawna Wells: 00:16:45

lot. And so to me, that's what success was. They were like, you

Shawna Wells: 00:16:48

are going to achieve. So great I achieve. But I was feeling so

Shawna Wells: 00:16:52

wrapped up. My identity is, if you take work away from it,

Shawna Wells: 00:16:55

pretty non existent. So over time, I evolved my legacy

Shawna Wells: 00:16:58

statement to be something that's much more robust and pictures

Shawna Wells: 00:17:01

the six realms. And there's this portion that I'll share because

Shawna Wells: 00:17:05

people say it's the most powerful. What I say in my

Shawna Wells: 00:17:08

legacy statement is that I will be someone who builds spaces of

Shawna Wells: 00:17:12

joy and possibility unapologetically, and that in

Shawna Wells: 00:17:15

order to do that, I will get energy from my closest friends

Shawna Wells: 00:17:19

and my children. And when I say my children, what I mean is the

Shawna Wells: 00:17:22

generation coming after us. If I didn't have my own I would take

Shawna Wells: 00:17:25

responsibility for and I do take responsibility for the

Shawna Wells: 00:17:28

generation coming after as much as I can. And those two things

Shawna Wells: 00:17:32

actually help me fuel my day. It allows me to make decisions

Shawna Wells: 00:17:37

about my own well being, for example, if I don't have any

Shawna Wells: 00:17:40

time with close friends in a given week, I know I'm going to

Shawna Wells: 00:17:43

be less effective in creating spaces for people enjoy and

Shawna Wells: 00:17:47

possibility. So as I think about the work that I do, I create

Shawna Wells: 00:17:53

spaces of joy and possibility, particularly for women and for

Shawna Wells: 00:17:58

black women, women of color and those working in allyship to

Shawna Wells: 00:18:01

ensure that we actually can create a declaration for the

Shawna Wells: 00:18:06

lives we want to live and lead.

Gary Michels: 00:18:07

I'm doing a lot of thinking and soul searching

Gary Michels: 00:18:09

here, because I think we all should live our lives like that.

Gary Michels: 00:18:12

Is like, how am I living my legacy? Not when I die, but

Gary Michels: 00:18:14

while I'm still living, because I can make an impact while I'm

Gary Michels: 00:18:16

still living.

Shawna Wells: 00:18:17

Yes, we're so convinced that if we just leave

Shawna Wells: 00:18:20

the right construction of the will and the thing, it's like,

Shawna Wells: 00:18:22

no, when people tell story, when they talk about your eulogy, and

Shawna Wells: 00:18:26

that's an exercise we have people do is write the things

Shawna Wells: 00:18:29

that people will say about you. They're not talking about names

Shawna Wells: 00:18:32

on buildings and cash in the bank. That may be important, but

Shawna Wells: 00:18:36

it's not all of it. It's not the whole story. And I think that's

Shawna Wells: 00:18:39

the piece of legacy that we we have not yet told the whole

Shawna Wells: 00:18:41

story, which is why I love your podcast. On you're really

Shawna Wells: 00:18:44

interrogating this idea of robustly, what does the word

Shawna Wells: 00:18:46

mean, right?

Gary Michels: 00:18:48

Well, so you and your family also own land in

Gary Michels: 00:18:51

Vermont, including an orchard that you see continue with your

Gary Michels: 00:18:55

ancestors legacy. Talk about that a little bit.

Shawna Wells: 00:18:57

Yeah. Somebody asked me the other day. They're

Shawna Wells: 00:19:00

like, what's the what is the most unusual thing that you have

Shawna Wells: 00:19:03

ever purchased? And I was like, 80 apple trees. So we have on

Shawna Wells: 00:19:08

our house in Vermont, 80 apple trees. And first of all, I have

Shawna Wells: 00:19:13

no idea how to care for 80 apple trees. So I'll just say that to

Shawna Wells: 00:19:17

know about these apple trees is each of them is a unique species

Shawna Wells: 00:19:20

of Apple. We were able to get the property from two owners

Shawna Wells: 00:19:24

ago. Was a farmer, and he would graft his own apples, which they

Shawna Wells: 00:19:29

think is a beautiful story and could have been forgotten, but

Shawna Wells: 00:19:32

not for a little map that was left inside of the basement of

Shawna Wells: 00:19:37

the barn, and it has each of the names of the apples, which I

Shawna Wells: 00:19:40

just think is such a beautiful, natural articulation of legacy,

Shawna Wells: 00:19:45

but to connect to our ancestors. I told you, my grandmother was

Shawna Wells: 00:19:50

not by choice, a farmer, and I watched her growing up in her

Shawna Wells: 00:19:55

backyard. She moved from Alabama to Hamilton, Ohio, which. Which

Shawna Wells: 00:20:00

my dad still wears proudly as a badge and has just moved back

Shawna Wells: 00:20:03

there. But in her backyard, she had the most beautiful garden.

Shawna Wells: 00:20:07

And growing up, I told you, I grew up where I sat out of

Shawna Wells: 00:20:09

outside of Philly, I didn't experience people growing

Shawna Wells: 00:20:12

things, and so when I would visit her, putting hands in the

Shawna Wells: 00:20:15

dirt with my grandmother is one of the most profound memories

Shawna Wells: 00:20:21

that I have of her, and I was so taken aback by her ability to

Shawna Wells: 00:20:25

say, this ground isn't well, and she would do something to it,

Shawna Wells: 00:20:28

and like collard greens, would be growing next, what the place

Shawna Wells: 00:20:32

in Vermont has allowed us to do, and what the farm in our

Shawna Wells: 00:20:34

backyard here, and I call it a farm, it's a garden our backyard

Shawna Wells: 00:20:37

in Las Vegas. It's allowed me to get back in touch with my

Shawna Wells: 00:20:41

ability to grow things, and actually, to create synergy

Shawna Wells: 00:20:45

between my ability to grow my company and my ability to grow a

Shawna Wells: 00:20:49

natural thing in the backyard. And that is a gift from my

Shawna Wells: 00:20:52

ancestors. And so I say often, Vermont has given me the chance

Shawna Wells: 00:20:55

to one own land, which my ancestors were not always able

Shawna Wells: 00:20:59

to do, and two to tend to it and to learn who we have become

Shawna Wells: 00:21:03

through that physical exercise, as opposed to leaving behind of

Shawna Wells: 00:21:08

the material.

Gary Michels: 00:21:09

So you've got a podcast.

Shawna Wells: 00:21:11

We do.

Gary Michels: 00:21:12

Tell me a little bit about your podcast.

Shawna Wells: 00:21:14

Yeah. So, you know, I think like you having

Shawna Wells: 00:21:17

listened to your podcast, like we wanted to answer the question

Shawna Wells: 00:21:20

for folks, what is a legacy? What does that mean? This word

Shawna Wells: 00:21:24

can seem so intimidating, and how can we approach our lives

Shawna Wells: 00:21:28

through it. And I decided, through our work with leaders

Shawna Wells: 00:21:31

that it just needed its own definition, but it needed to be

Shawna Wells: 00:21:34

most profoundly defined by the leaders who are experiencing the

Shawna Wells: 00:21:38

impact of living with a legacy mindset. So on our podcast, we

Shawna Wells: 00:21:43

interview leaders who have really started to embody this

Shawna Wells: 00:21:47

idea of legacy, and they talk about what's hard about it and

Shawna Wells: 00:21:51

what's good about it, and what they've discovered along the

Shawna Wells: 00:21:53

way. And I like to say it's a very candid podcast. I know most

Shawna Wells: 00:21:57

of the guests, so we talk very intimately about their journey,

Shawna Wells: 00:22:00

so you can hear from them. Here's what it's been like to

Shawna Wells: 00:22:02

come in into contact with this word, and then at the end, we

Shawna Wells: 00:22:06

ask every guest, what's a lyric that would embody your legacy?

Shawna Wells: 00:22:11

Because I am a music nerd, legacy is often left in music,

Shawna Wells: 00:22:16

and we can hear the legacy of the instrument, or the legacy of

Shawna Wells: 00:22:20

the singer, of the designer, of what we hear with our own ears

Shawna Wells: 00:22:24

through music and so often. And I'm going to ask you in a

Shawna Wells: 00:22:27

second, Gary, what's your song?

Gary Michels: 00:22:29

I'm already thinking about it right now.

Shawna Wells: 00:22:32

The legacy of music is so profound that it can

Shawna Wells: 00:22:34

take us. We're walking through the store and we hear a song,

Shawna Wells: 00:22:37

and it takes us right back to our 12 year old self, or right

Shawna Wells: 00:22:39

back to our grandmother's kitchen and our right back to a

Shawna Wells: 00:22:42

best friend telling us something. And I there is

Shawna Wells: 00:22:45

nothing like that in the world. Music is such a profound gift

Shawna Wells: 00:22:48

that that we've been given as as human people. So do you have

Shawna Wells: 00:22:52

a...

Gary Michels: 00:22:53

I do. Start Me Up by Rolling Stones, for sure.

Gary Michels: 00:22:56

That's probably my lyric, because I feel like every day is

Gary Michels: 00:22:58

a new day. Let's get it going so I can be my best. That's

Gary Michels: 00:23:02

probably, I mean, there's so many others. I can sit with

Gary Michels: 00:23:04

music for hours. What's yours?

Shawna Wells: 00:23:06

You know? So today in particular, so I think we're

Shawna Wells: 00:23:10

sitting in a paradoxical moment, and we've got a lot a lot of

Shawna Wells: 00:23:14

people are breathing easy. A lot of people are holding their

Shawna Wells: 00:23:16

breath. A lot of people are, you know, there's a lot of people

Shawna Wells: 00:23:19

experiencing different realities right now. So for me, today,

Shawna Wells: 00:23:22

it's a change is going to come by. Sam Cook, it's the line a

Shawna Wells: 00:23:26

change is going to come. And I say that because, for better or

Shawna Wells: 00:23:30

for worse, change is coming always beyond like today feels

Shawna Wells: 00:23:34

poignant for some folks, but yesterday could have felt

Shawna Wells: 00:23:36

poignant for some folks. And the day before and the day before,

Shawna Wells: 00:23:39

change is always coming. And I think we can actually find real

Shawna Wells: 00:23:43

power in embracing that change is part of our lives, and that

Shawna Wells: 00:23:47

we get to decide how we respond to it, and that is part of a

Shawna Wells: 00:23:52

life well lived, is to figure out, how do I how do I align

Shawna Wells: 00:23:55

myself in moments of change that feel rather disruptive to some

Shawna Wells: 00:24:00

and change is different for everyone.

Gary Michels: 00:24:02

The last question I have for you, if someone wants

Gary Michels: 00:24:05

to get in touch with you to hear more about your services and

Gary Michels: 00:24:08

what you do, how would they reach you?

Shawna Wells: 00:24:10

Yes, you can find me. You can always find me on

Shawna Wells: 00:24:13

LinkedIn. So my name is Shawna Wells. The second place you can

Shawna Wells: 00:24:17

find us is on our website. 7Gen, the number seven. Gen,

Shawna Wells: 00:24:20

legacy.com and you can find everything we do there. So

Shawna Wells: 00:24:23

that's the first place to stop. And I would say, sign up for our

Shawna Wells: 00:24:27

newsletter. We do a lot of conversations with leaders. We

Shawna Wells: 00:24:30

give tips and advice. We share our podcast drops. Everything

Shawna Wells: 00:24:33

you need to know about us happens through our newsletter.

Shawna Wells: 00:24:37

And so come there.

Gary Michels: 00:24:38

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Shawna, this

Gary Michels: 00:24:40

has been such a pleasure. I know our listeners got a lot of it. I

Gary Michels: 00:24:43

got a lot of it. I've taken notes here, and this is, I love

Gary Michels: 00:24:46

talking about this kind of stuff.

Shawna Wells: 00:24:48

Thank you so much for asking us to be on it and

Shawna Wells: 00:24:50

for the conversation, it was really beautiful.